Exploring Potential with Kate Wendelboe

Hello, my name is Tracy Sinclair. Welcome to Coaching and Conversation. Coaching in Conversation is a chance to discuss and explore, not just how we can keep developing. And ensuring as coach practitioners, but also to consider how coaching is evolving and its future potential and place as a powerful vehicle for human development in today's and tomorrow's world. I'll be sharing some of my own thoughts on these topics. And we will also hear from some great guests from around the world who bring their unique experience and perspectives. This time, this episode is particularly brought to you to celebrate International Coaching Week with a theme this year of exploring potential. And I've had the pleasure of talking with Kate Wendel Bow for this episode, who is an advocate of coaching as a leadership tool and also as a foundational block as she describes it, of inclusive corporate culture. Kate trained with me at Coach Advancement and qualified as an ICF ACC coach in 2020. She's also the co-director of strategy and growth at a multinational telecommunications organization, and she is the founder of Recalibration Coaching, which supports people at who are at crossroads in their career. Her educational background is in languages and in business. She has an MBA from Cambridge's Judge Business School where she specialized in culture, arts and media management. Kate loves supporting individuals and colleagues in her corporate environment to be their best selves, both inside and outside of their work, through her powerful questioning, and also by helping people tell their own compelling story. My conversation with Kate has been very much around potential. How has coaching helped her explore her own potential as a practitioner? And a professional and a human being. And also she shares with us some stories of how coaching has helped her clients leverage their potential. I hope you enjoy well, Kate, welcome. It's lovely to talk to you today. Thank you. So good to talk to you as well. It's been a while. It certainly has. And thank you for. Agreeing to do a very special edition of the Coaching and Conversation Podcast, especially for International Coaching Week. And as you probably know, our theme this year for International Coaching Week is Exploring Potential. And you have also very kindly written one of our daily blogs for celebrating this week, which I really encourage everyone to go and and read. And maybe we'll pick up on a few of those things and dive into your story a little bit more and probably spread our wings and talk about other things as well. Let's see where it goes. But I'm just going to invite you to maybe just share your thoughts on a very open initial question is how do you think that coaching has helped you to explore your potential? Thank you, Tracy. It's been such a nice opportunity to explore that very thought and to explore the really important part that coaching has played in my life. And this is being coached and as a coach. And they're both hugely complimentary, aren't they? But I was first coached, goodness me, decade ago probably at a point when I was feeling a bit stuck in my career. Nothing particular. I wasn't particularly lying happy. I just wasn't feeling the, like I knew the direction I wanted to go in. And so I I worked with a coach who'd come recommended, and I was amazed at how transformative the power of coaching can be. I would emerge out of each of our coaching sessions in this little sort of glowing bubble of positivity, and it was, Such a good opportunity and created me both the time and the accountability, both of which I'm sure are important themes that will come up in our conversation to reflect on my values, what made me feel fulfilled at work and in life, you know, and how the two must come together. And after the end of that engagement and, and that was, that, that was a coaching relationship that I, that I went back to at different points and have gone back to in different points in my career. I thought right at some point when the timing is right, I. I will train to become a coach myself so that I can help others in this way. That to me, at the moment, at that time, seemed almost magical. So fast forward a few years later I did my initial coaching training, I think it was with you, Tracy and I, and I remember that feeling in the classroom thinking I. How on earth am I gonna get my a hundred hours and the accreditation? And it just seemed like a, a huge long journey in front of me. And, and here I am going for my, going for reaccreditation, you know, dozens, tens, dozens, you know, over a hu many, much over a hundred hours of coaching later. Yeah. And have been lucky enough to coach. All sorts of people, both internally in the, in the company that I work at at the moment and, and have worked out for a good decade and externally as well. Mm-hmm. That's marvelous. And I know we want to talk about your role as a coach as well. I'm, I'd love if I can, just to take you back to something that you said that I'm really curious about at the beginning when you said that, when you first engaged with a coach, You weren't necessarily feeling anything particularly troublesome, but something just wasn't quite there. And I'm, I'm just thinking what your reflections are on this, because what came up for me there was we don't always know that our potential isn't being fulfilled, do we? You know, we can be trembling along in life, kind of getting on with things and. Not actually realize until we have that space and time to reflect that perhaps there is an element of our potential that is a bit lane dormant or is is not being activated. It just struck me when you described how you felt when you first were coached. I don't know how that resonates with you. Mm, it definitely does, and I think it's particularly when at that point I was, you know, I was a good few years into my career. So I knew what it felt like to thrive and to feel like I was thriving in my career. And I knew that at that point I wasn't, but I didn't know why. So I needed that coaching relationship to create the thinking time to, to get under the skin of why that was and actually what I needed to put in place. To thrive. And you know, at that time, you know, I was at a company I liked, I had a boss that I liked. You know, so a lot of, a lot of the right ingredients were in place. There was just something missing and it took coaching to help me realize what that was. Yeah. In some ways then, you know, I'm thinking for the people that might be listening to this who have never been coached, Sometimes the trigger to work with a coach is something a lot more obvious is, is something like a very specific challenge or a very specific goal for you, it was more subtle and, and yet, and I'd be interested to hear, I guess in a way, how and why you ended up finding a coach then, if, if you see what I mean? Because there's a, there's a subtlety there around the work that you did that. Could have just been left undone because there wasn't anything so pressing to actually, you know, automatically think I want to work with a coach. So I'm just wondering, knowing that there are perhaps people listening to this who might be in a similar position to what you were back then. What, what would you say about, about coaching and engaging with a coach? That's, that's so true because I, when I reflect on the other times I've come back to coaching, it was for a specific trigger event, like becoming a parent or feeling burnt out. But this particular time it was just that feeling of being stuck and like I could keep tring along, but that I needed a wider vision. A wider reconnection to my values. And so I think I a a and this is what's made me, I think, such a proponent of coaching, that it can be so useful in those moments when you are, you are fine, but you are not thriving. You don't feel like you are the best version of yourself. And that's, I think, when coaching can kick in and back to the theme of realizing your potential. You know what, that, that is a, that is an excellent application of coaching when. You're feeling fine, but you are not, you are feeling like something is missing on that journey to your true potential. Yeah. And if anything, I suppose that's probably the best time or the best reason to tap into coaching, isn't it? To, to proactively want to maximize your potential as the ICF definition of coaching says, you know, that we maximize that potential personally and professionally. Very much so. And, and I think that, I think that working with a coach, For me, and I'm sure for many people listening who haven't been coached, for me, it was around having somebody that was holding me accountable to make time to think about my potential. And to have that, that thread of a conversation going through our monthly coaching sessions, which say what they were at the time to, to then start to. Put that picture together of what it is that I needed in place to thrive. Yeah. And, and you've started, this is wonderful because you've already started to answer a question I had just bubbling away there, which was a, a thinking about what then, specifically was it about coaching that helped you get unstuck? And therefore thrive more tap into the potential. So you've already offered one of those there, which is that thread of accountability to even take the time to think, to reflect. What else about the process of being coached do you think really helped start to unlock your potential? It's really interesting because as I think about it, there are, there was, there were, there are two levels that, that kicked in for me. One was at that macro level, what is, what are, what are the, you know, we started with the, the, the, the classic wheel of life in each of the parts of my life. Yes. How was I feeling out of 10? And that was really useful because there were some surprising things in there that I thought, things that I thought were okay, but actually were real causes of concern for me. There was the Wheel of life, there was also a big spotlight on my values. What values did I need to, I do, I need to be in place to make me feel like I'm realizing my potential, what is most important to me? So there were, there were big things on the macro level, but there were also little things that would come out of coaching conversations like, That have turned into principles in how I, in how I sort of lead my life at the moment. And a, and a small example of that is doing the last thing on the list. What came out of the, the a coaching conversation was I was, I was, I'm very organized. I have a good to-do list, but I always go to the easy things first. But actually that doesn't help me realize my potential. So, so one of my principles now is do the last thing on the list. Do that thing. That I'm putting off that is the hardest thing, because that will be likely most fulfilling. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, that's amazing and hopefully we're encouraging anyone listening to to consider engaging with a coach. And where, where this is taking me as well is just something else you referenced in your, in your blog. Is you've shared a couple of examples around how coaching has supported you personally and professionally, which of course directly links me back to the I c F definition of coaching again, that it's to maximize potentially in those, both of those big domains of our life. I know that you've been coaching and working with a coach on and off for, for a while, and I also know that you've. Just most recently stepped into a different way of working, which is to take on a, a senior role within your organization on a job share basis. I'd love if you would like to, to say a little bit more about that recent professional transition and, and what part coaching has had to play in that for you. Yes, of course. Thank you. I have, I've been on quite a journey over the past number of years, and mainly it, it relates for me to working parenthood and finding the time to be the kind of professional I want to be, but also the kind of mother I want to be, and the relationship between full-time working and full-time parenting. So there were a number of of things that coincided that meant that I really wanted to go part-time. And at the time I was doing an interim director level role, and I, and I was really enjoying it, but I was thinking about how do I hold these two things? How do I hold these two things at the same time? This, this senior position and this wish to go part-time. So I started investigating different options. You know, one of the, one of the key coaching questions I often ask is you know, what's that third path? Cause I was sort of thinking, oh, do I need to, you know, just go full-time into this role? Or do I need to sort of leave because, you know, this is the only real for me at this company. What's the third part? So the third option for me, they came exploring whether or not I could make this role into a job share. And company we're hugely supportive in in entertaining the possibility and indeed making it happen, supporting me to make it happen. So I'm now doing a director level role three days a week. So I work Monday to Wednesday and my job share partner works Wednesday to Friday, which leaves me. Two days to to hang around the school gates to do batch cooking and, and to spend time on, on many of my other passions, including coaching. Yeah. And, and I, I, I just want to pick up on some of your language there about the third path, and I know we were talking about this earlier before we started our recording here of this, the dilemma of the either or. Either I become a full-time mom or I become a full-time professional, and I mean, what a dilemma that faces so many women. I mean, something I know I've experienced myself. That's very, very, very difficult, isn't it for many people to navigate, and I'm not, I'm not assuming that what you've done is the answer for everyone, but it strikes me as a great example of with some thinking and some time and some reflection. You, it doesn't have to be an either or. It can be an and and then your potential as a mother can also be fulfilled and explored as well as your potential as a professional. Absolutely. And, and it was, it was coaching conversations that helped me come to come to those conclusions. Yeah. And it helped tease that out. Yeah. Maybe that, maybe that takes us then to, to your organization, because I know we've been talking as well around your, your thoughts and your feelings around how your organization has supported you to, to, to navigate this path of being coached. For your own professional and personal development, but as what it's also enabled you to train to be a coach. And we know from a lot of research that organizations that embrace coaching at a more systemic level that go beyond just executive coaching packages for the few organizations that embrace a coaching culture. Tend to experience quite significant benefits both on the people side as well as the commercial side. Would you like to say a little bit more about, you know, how that's been for you in terms of the role that your organization has played as well in, in enabling this? Yes, of course. So, so I started. I started my training with you I think six years ago now. And that was, was it that long ago? I know, I know. Time flies. And that was very much supported by the organization. Hmm. And I think, you know, you came into our, you came into our buildings and we were, we were a community of internal coaches. Yeah. Now, fast forward six years, and I'm in a different part of the organization, but a different part of the organization that is looking into. How to form a much more structured community of internal coaches. And again, you've supported us with with training around the now not so new core competencies. Mm-hmm. And it's really interesting to reflect on internal coaching and how, and the best ways to set that up as well, because there's no doubt in my mind that studying as a coach and continue to develop as, as a coach makes me a better leader. And I certainly used a lot of coaching competencies in, in my relationships with my team, with the people I work with. But I would not say that I would be the right person as a line manager to be a coach with a capital C. If you like to one of my team. And so it's finding somebody across the organization or across the division that can then be a coach for them. Yeah, and likewise the people that I tend to coach internally are people in a very different part of the organization or in the division. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So you've, you, you've got this balance then between coaching still being a very valuable skill set for a leader in the line as it were. And at the same time having a level of separation and distance between with internal coaching so that there is more objectivity less opinion, less bias, less judgment, less knowing all of those things. If, if there then are, and I'm sure there will be several organizational people listening to this, what might your message be to organizations around. The benefit of embracing coaching more broadly so that the organization also explores its potential, you know, what's in it for the organization, do you think? Well, I think that's the twofold benefit of, firstly, the benefit of the coaching culture to the organization as a whole. So that idea that is much less hierarchical, that we are all as people in partnership to help this organization realize its full potential. Mm-hmm. And the second level, which is helping on that individual basis, individuals working with an internal coach to realize their own individual potential. So I think there are huge benefits to organizations for, to embracing coaching on both those levels and, and I'm sure many more. Yeah, I mean, I couldn't, I couldn't disagree with you and the, you know, I work with many organizations and some that embrace coaching systemically and some that don't. And those that do have a very different kind of culture. And do experience some of the benefits that I know. The research really backs up around, around the cultural the contribution that coaching makes to cultural development. And of course, just if anyone's unaware, pointing them towards a lot of research that the ICF has done on that, on coaching culture and change management as well. Let's Let's think. Then we've talked a little bit about coaching and you professionally, you also did reference that coaching came into your life and was very useful on a personal level. You mentioned two, two key milestones around one being a mother and two feeling rather burnt out. What did coaching help you to do in those cases around potential? I think in each of those cases it was around, Again, creating time to think things through properly, and specifically in those examples, becoming a, a working parent, it was almost what what I needed to do was reconsider my identity. Mm-hmm. And taking, and taking motherhood in as part of my identity rather than something I could hold separate, which I think is, was, was my assumption going into it, but of course. That isn't possible. That isn't possible. So, so it was how, how to almost rebuild my identity as a working parent and coaching helped me create the space to do that. And then I think in the example that I referenced around feeling burnt out, it was then using the, the coaching time and the space to think through what I needed to do about that situation. And the next steps that I needed to put in place for myself to get myself into a position that was actually more sustainable. Mm-hmm. And I think interestingly, I was both coached and coached because at those two, at those two times I was part of a wider coaching group. So when I was, when I when I was doing my initial training with you I had a, I had a toddler and I was, and I was quite pregnant at the time as well. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, so I was part of a coaching community in the people that I was doing the training with, and that was lovely because that then gave me a very, a brilliant community in which to explore a lot of these ideas and working with my fellow trainee coaches. Around a lot of the things that I needed to think through. Mm-hmm. There's two or three key things really resonating with me there, Kate, on what you've just shared. One is that recent piece there about community and how the, the importance of community. And we, we, we talk about that quite a bit, don't we? In, in, in coaching around creating a community. I'm in the ICF as a professional body. Seeks and does build a community. And, and, and I know that I place a lot of importance on trying to do that in my business for those people that have trained or studied with me to, to, to have that place of connection. The, the other thing that really struck me was Was, you've mentioned this a couple of times, now is is the time to think, you know, so q kudos to Nancy Klein over and over again, cuz this comes up so many times. Is it, is, it often does boil down to that. Very simple. And yet, you know, tip of the iceberg concept of taking the time to, to just really think about who we are, who we want to be, what we need. And, and, and that, and that links perhaps to the third thing I was just holding there, which is how you said that coaching actually was inviting you to look at your identity. You've met, you referenced identity. So this isn't just about how I behave, it's also about who I am. Is that right? Yes. And much more those, you know, back to the core values. But the changing sense of identity, because it does, it changes as we, as we mature, as we move through life. And that's where I think as a coach, it is so important to keep training because as a, as an individual, my identity is shifting and changing. Yeah. And as a coach, I need to keep up with that shifting and changing identity, but also the shifting and changing identity of coaching itself as a profession and as a community. Yeah. Yeah. And so I was just having a response there to what you were just saying, because literally just this morning I was having a conversation with a coach who, through a particular experience in their life, Has realized they've changed and it's changing who they are as a coach. And you are, you are just really touching on that very thing there, which is is a topic very close to my own heart around the distinction between the doing of coaching and the being of the coach. As an instrument of the work. So yeah, maybe that's another, a conversation for another, another whole conversation. But it's interesting, isn't it, because when I reflect on those three key points at which coaching has helped me feeling stuck in my career, becoming a working mother, and and that experience of burnout, I, those are, those are almost what I view as as my expertise. My favorite three areas of expertise. But having gone through them and for those, those three elements being quite emotional in their own different ways, it's then as I coach people through those same experiences, it's making sure that I'm getting out of the way and remembering that their experiences, or even though they might be similar to mine, are different. So it's getting outta the way as a coach, isn't it? Yeah. So that's a lovely reminder, isn't it? That this is about exploring our client's potential and therefore our own experience and how we leveraged our potential is not necessarily useful to the client. And, and sometimes we have to, to get out of the way on that, which, so there's, there's some lovely boundaries I guess, coming in there as well. So talking of clients. Then maybe let's go to the, to the, to the third piece that I wanted to explore with you, which is you as a coach and you've shared a couple of examples of how you feel your clients have been able to explore their potential. It would be lovely to hear a little bit more about your thoughts on that, either, either those examples or any others that you want to share. Well, I think again, and I've, I've used the word magical I think before in this conversation, but it's, but again, it's, it's truly magical to me about how coaching is different for every coachee and how I have how I have helped very different people with very different things using coaching and how, and how maneuverable it is as a tool. So I think the two examples that I referenced in the blog, one is, one was a one-off session. With somebody. It was as I was doing my coaching training, so I was building up my hours. So I was working with various people around the organization and, you know, it was, I think we, we only had, we had no more than an hour together. And again, this client came out of it with, I think a very different realization. Than they had coming into the conversation because they were coming in, I think expecting to be talked into applying for this other role that they were expecting to apply for. Mm-hmm. But through the conversation, what became more important was that they were reaching the end of their career and actually what they wanted to be doing. We talked about the metaphor of a box and putting lots of different things into this box with the box. Being their career. And actually they realized that the role that they were currently in was the perfect one for them to do that and to almost be in the position to close the box and, and carry it away feeling fulfilled and, and feeling like they had realized their true potential. So that was one and, and really poignant for me that it was, it, that conversation had had meant and done so much for this person. Mm-hmm. And then again, the other example I talk about is a client that I've worked with on and off for years who keeps coming back again. I think when things feel a bit stuck. Hmm. And we can have a conversation or two or three around getting unstuck and it's never what we go in thinking it, it might be, yeah. But it, but it is an amazing tool, isn't it? Because I, I, I've worked with people at all stages of their career, of their career working in the corporate environment, freelancers, you know, I do, I do quite a bit in my local community. And it, it is work meeting people where they are and taking them to wherever it is that they want to go. Yeah. Yeah. And that's lovely what you just said there about meeting people where they are and helping them, you know, taking them to where they want to go is this idea of potential means different things to different people, doesn't it? You know, again, this is, I guess as coaches, we get obsessed with language, don't we? And the choice of language, what does potential even mean to you or to I or to our client, and. We can so easily assume by, by putting our own meaning of the word potential. And in, in the first case that you described, in some ways, the potential of that person was leveraged by them actually staying where they were rather than making the the, the big change. And I think for some people it's redefining. I mean, we talk about potential, it's also redefining success. Yeah. And again, as people's lives move on and, and, and people's lives change, that definition of, of, of success needs to change with, with essentially the, their underlying core identity changing. Yeah. And something you said about the client, the second client that you've, you know, connected with periodically. You reminded me of a client that, that I work with who actually, when I was first trained as a coach back in 2005, they were my first, you know, Guinea pig, I guess my first Guinea pig client. And I still coach them periodically now, all of those years later. And it's interesting because. On the one hand, I, I I, I want to make a very clear distinction between coaching and therapy. And that coaching is not necessarily just a, an ongoing, unending, unbounded piece of work. This client does something similar to what I think your client is doing, which is he comes and goes periodically when there's something to work on. And we might work for six months and then I might not connect with him for two years, or maybe it's six months later or something as different life milestones emerge. But what was striking me about that, about the, one of the benefits of the longevity of that is that I've noticed over those years with that client that there is a thread around that person's potential. And their perception of them fulfilling their potential, that is a pattern that pops up. And it's the fact that we have that safety, that trust and intimacy, that rapport and the longevity of our relationship that actually nowadays deeply enables us to do the deep work and, and how I'm thinking as we are talking often. The work that he brings in now is almost more an example of a deeper piece that we quite quickly go to because of that longevity. So that sense of the, the, the deeper elements of values, beliefs, identity, sense of self, meaning of life, questions almost become so much more accessible just because of the. The depth and the length of that relationship and the history. And you can, because you, you know each other so well, you can pick up much more quickly in changes of energy. Yeah. Can't you? And, and start much deeper. Yeah. And, and also there's high permission, you know, of course, of course there's still the need for respect and sensitivity, but there's such a high level of permission. And safety on both parts to, to go there, to be vulnerable, to experiment, take risks. That's not to say of course there's a benefit in having a fresh perspective and working with someone different, but it, it just struck me that, that there's something really quite unique about that longer relationship. Hmm. And people know what they're getting. But I think also it's working at, it's knowing when you as an individual need to work with a different kind of coach or indeed a different type of professional, say a therapist. And it's knowing how to use all these different support mechanisms around you as you move through life. Absolutely. Absolutely. And we need them, don't we? I was just. Just had a wave of being philosophical there about where the complexity of our world right now, we need, we need those resources around us. At least. I, at least that's my, my experience. Very much so. And, and we as coaches need to know about them so that we can guide our clients away from coaching or, or to layer something like therapy on top of coaching, if that's the right thing for that client at the time. Indeed. Yeah, indeed. Yeah, I notice as we're, as we're sort of coming maybe towards the end of our conversation, I've gone off to the place that I often do, which is that very philosophical place of just how impactful coaching is and how, you know, I feel coaching is more needed and more valuable in the world today than ever before. That's always the the box that I like to stand on, or the drum that I like to bang is, is, you know, I feel really quite compelled to, to just really encourage anyone and organizations to lean in to this way of working. Because I really think that the potential for the impact of coaching has, you know, now we're talking about the potential of coaching. You know, I feel that. A little bit like our brains where we utilize 10% or something of our own mind capacity, I think that we're still not tapping into anywhere near the fullest potential of coaching as a, as a way of working and communicating. Yes, and I th and I think it's about being an ambassador of, for all of us to be an ambassador of coaching as a tool. To, to, to, to sing it loud from that box and educate people as to what it can do to help them reach their potential. Yes. Gosh, wow. So we've gone from some very micro examples today to bigger systemic le levels to philosophical consideration. So we've been on quite a big, big loop there. Hey, thank you so much and, and I'm just thinking as we come to a pause, Given that all sorts of people could be listening to this, hopefully lots of people are people who are already coaches at various stages of their development. People who are clients being coached, people who are potential clients who have not yet considered coaching or organizations that use or don't use coaching. I mean, there could be all sorts of people listening to to this if there was one. Final thing you wanted to share around how you believe coaching leverages potential? What, what would be your, your parting gift? I think something about the, the power of coaching because it enables individuals, companies to evolve as needed because coaching as a profession is evolving as it needs to. Hmm. Hmm. Wow. Wise words. Thank you so much, Kate. It's been such a pleasure and I do hope that everyone listening has enjoyed our conversation and yeah, uses coaching a bit more to explore their potential. Agreed. Thank you so much, Tracy. What? Great chat. Thank you. Bye-bye for now. Bye. You have been listening to Coaching in Conversation by Tracy Sinclair, a podcast aimed at exploring how coaching is a vehicle for human development in today's and tomorrow's world. You can learn more about coach training and development@tracysinclair.com and follow us. On social media. If you enjoyed this podcast, please leave a rating and review and also share it with your networks to help us expand our reach. Thank you for listening and see you next time.