Hello, my name is Tracy Sinclair. Welcome to Coaching in Conversation. Coaching in Conversation is a chance to discuss and explore, not just how we can keep developing and improving. Coaching in Conversation is a chance to discuss and explore, not just how we can keep developing and improving. Turing as coach practitioners, but also to consider how coaching is evolving and its future potential and place as a powerful vehicle for human development in today's and tomorrow's world. I'll be sharing some of my own thoughts on these topics. And we will also hear from some great guests from around the world who bring their unique experience and perspectives. Hello again everyone, and welcome to our episode of Coaching in Conversation Today I have the absolute pleasure of talking with ra, who is a phenomenal coach in Thailand, in Asia. I know Cara from various circles within the ICF and the Marshall Goldsmith community. And I have to say, she is not only a delightful human being, she is an incredibly powerful coach and has made a significant contribution to the development and evolution of coaching in Thailand and in Asia. Cara has been denoted as the number one coach in Asia by Marshall Goldsmith, and she has worked with organizations for many years, helping them to integrate coaching in a very practical way. In their organizations. And she has also been a pioneer for simplifying coaching processes within organizations so that they can experience tangible benefits from that. She also now has a school, an ICF accredited school, and she teaches and trains and develops coaches there. She has a bestselling book, The Leader as Coach which is the first Thai language book that introduces the concept of simplified coaching conversations and has a forward in it by Dr. Marshall Goldsmith. And Cara has won multiple awards over the years of her career, including an award for being one of Asia's women leaders by CMO Asia. So, I have a real pleasure in speaking with Cara on so many levels and I really hope that you enjoy hearing her story how she came into coaching and how she uses coaching. And this episode is called Integrating Coaching with Integrity. Well, Cara, thank you so much for joining me today. I've been really looking forward to this conversation. So welcome to our episode of Coaching in Conversation. Thank you too. Thanks. Thanks so much, Tracy. It's such a great honor for me to be part of your resourceful series of podcasts, especially on the mastery of, of coaching. Thank you so much. Well, it's a pleasure to have you here with us. So I'd love for you to share a little bit more with our listeners and our viewers perhaps a little bit about yourself. Why coaching and, , what's your background that's led you to be where you are today? Well, I love these questions. Well, the first thing it's destiny. It's the destiny. Well, but something that is bigger than that, it's the inspirations that I have been receiving from so many people in our community, like The 100 coach, , my child goes with 100 coach community, my partner, the news navigation, and,, especially you, who has been my MCC mentor who give me a lot of inspiration. I would say that I am very fortunate also to have opportunities , to experience the values of coaching at a personal level, at professional level, and, and also at a greater level and, and to paint the pictures of this connection a little bit please allow me to share a little bit about what I'm doing now and what I did in the past. And then you would see the. The connection of what brought me here today. And I am currently, as , an executive coach. I am also the coaching education provider and the facilitators, , but so called I am today an external coach, but in my previous career. I was just a manager as a coach,, working in a business organization and it was the allies industry. So back then we only use coaching as a part of leadership role., if you think about the allies workforce, the workforce was so diverse, and the allies that I work for was big, large, , 50, 000 people working together around the world. And I was in the Pacific region in the Asia Pacific region. Asia Pacific region itself, we had about 500 employees coming from different cultures. So when we brought in coaching as a part of leadership skills, it helps us a lot to, , especially to close the, or to bridge the cross cultural communication gaps. And there were less and less communication breakdown, , when leaders and managers know how to coach. So I experienced the benefits of coaching by myself. And because of my educational backgrounds I was assigned by my boss to also lead a lot of leadership and people development programs. And I asked my boss, , to allow me to Embraced the coaching process to accelerate the people development program also. And I have to say that, , I, I, I have the best boss in the world for me. And even though we, I, I'm not working with and her name is Laurie, even though we are not working together anymore, but she's still my best leader. Ever. So my boss was very supportive and she backed me up in everything that I did about coaching. And she herself coached me a lot. Whenever I had trouble, , I have problems, personal problems or professional problems. And when I went to see her, she wouldn't give me instructions. She would just ask me to arrive at my own insights, and she even assigned an executive coach, , to help me learn and grow and thrive through many things that were changing in the airlines. And we also apply a lot of coaching and mentoring process with the newcomers., when people when newly hired they are new to the environment, they need some help, some support. And And the third thing is that directly and indirectly, we kind of turn around the leadership cultures in the allies from commanding, controlling into in a more empowering. And an engaging workforce through the coaching practice. You see, I, I was in the context of, , organization applying coaching. So I, I kind of experienced the value by myself. And when I resigned from, from the allies in 2005, when I started my own company the very first few products that I market wasn't about executive coaching at all. I didn't know anything about executive coaching at all. But we, I, after I have delivered some of the soft skill training, like leadership skill training, then my client asked me, instructors, would you like to continue the coaching conversation with our leaders? Because they seem to like you. They seem to want to be coached by you. And it was on voluntary basis. And, , everyone sign up to get my executive coaching. And I didn't say yes. And, and, and, and the first place, because I wanted to do the best for them. So I start to search for who is the best in the industry in executive coaching. And so I was lucky because I, I had a friend. Who know Dr. Personally, so I asked him to introduce. Me to Dr. Marshall Goldsmith. And when I met him, he was such an , generous person. He gave me all the materials. And I learned tremendously about executive coaching from Dr. Marshall Goldsmith. And then His approach fit with what I need, and so I continue, , to do leadership and executive coaching simultaneously, and so here I am. Today, I have to thank Laurie at the Allies. I have to thank Marshall Goldsmith, thanks to my clients, and especially you, who inspired me to level up, to upgrade. My levels from PCC to MCC, it was a really fulfilling journey to be mentored by you, Tracy. Well, thank you, Cara. It was it was a great pleasure working with you too, and I was very excited. at the result when you got your MCC. So that's wonderful news. And, , what strikes me about your story is how there are often certain people in our history that have really supported us and, and helped us to, to get to the place that we, we end up, , being. And your story really resonates with me as well, because I know that there are some, Some leaders and some friends and some colleagues that have always been there for me too. To, , to sponsor you, to support you, to encourage you, to empower you, which of course is really important, like having our own team, team around us. Yes. Given, given your, given your experience now in, in coaching and that history that you've had with that, where do you see coaching evolving, let's say in the next five years? What, what's in the future do you think? Yeah let me refer a little bit back to the past. I think in the past, , few years, or could be over 10 years times and coaching conversation was kind of limited in. Into the performance improvement conversation., we use coaching to to help someone who's to support someone who had performance or behavioral issues. But what I'm seeing , coming in and actually it's happening already, not, not, not coming, but I'm seeing the role of coaching, , that it's it is expanded into many areas, especially in the areas of people are seeing coaching as an enabler of changes and transformation. That is the main area, but to summarize it and to think about it. Just maybe maybe three trends to share with you today. What I'm see, what I'm seeing coming in, in the next few years to come three things, I think the first one is that my prediction, , my prediction is that more and more people. will be interested to embrace the coaching conversation in our day to day interaction. And the reason I thought so, because we are living in the ever changing world and we don't have all the answers by ourselves anymore., we are so in interdependent and, and rely on each other. And when we talk about collaboration, we can it's not only about within organization collaboration. Sometimes we have to collaborate with competitors, , even with competitors and, and, and, and to do it, , productively, I think people will, Meet a partnership conversation and the type of conversation that facilitate the partnership very well, , is a type of coaching conversation that that facilitated so well. So I think in the future, people will use coaching conversation to build collaboration to build partnership. Consciously, unconsciously, maybe they don't know that they are applying it, , because we are so interdependent and we can see now that something happens in the other part of the world, , will have impact to us the opposite part of the world. We need to rely on each other. And I think that's the first point. And secondly, I, this is what I'm I'm seeing that is coming. I think the organizations that care about people's mental well being is going to need coaching a lot, a lot, a lot more. And the reason I say that because after the pandemic crisis, stress and pressure and the feeling of being panicked about here and there have been growing inside people. And some people are aware of it. Some people are not aware of it. And sometimes it has already create, created impact. To their productivity, for example. And I was glad that mental well being, it's another. Additional focus or topic that came out of the ICF study just early this year. So and I think the challenge of , bringing up the mental issues, if I want to talk to you about my mental issue, this is, this is very challenging and it's not likely, , if we don't trust each other I wouldn't bring that up to you. We need a kind of trusting and safe. Relationship, right, to talk about what, what is beneath the iceberg together. And I think the coaching conversation will facilitate it very well., some people, they don't want to talk about their mental well being because they are afraid that they will be perceived as a weak person, right? So and the coach is the, I think the right person., that people will bring that up. It doesn't mean that we have to, , give people healing hands because we are not therapists and we are not medical doctors, but to help people become aware. And shift the way they think and they feel and creating a new more productive habits would be helpful. And finally, the third point, I think the roles of the coaching school. And the coaching education providers will play more and more important roles in shaping the next generation of coaches. And the reason I say this because Tracy, , nowadays there are many people out there who use the word coach in front of their names, and there are so many people who didn't have. The right coaching educations. They didn't go through the ethical, standards, like ICF ethical standards. And professional coach, we know that whatever we do, whatever we talk, we have to put the client's needs and achievements, , as a center. And some of the people who don't know about ethical standards misuse or abuse the power of, of coaching. And that could ruin, I mean, our coaching professions in the future. So the coaching school will have a more and more important role, , to differentiate professional court with court, the word court in, in general. This is what I think. What, what do you think, Tracy? I mean, there's so much going on in my mind there, Cara, and I agree with you on so many levels. First of all, I'm, I'm very passionate about the potential for coaching in the space of well being and mental wellness. So often we talk about, , when people have a lack of mental wellbeing and, , how much we're seeing in terms of stress and anxiety and depression and things and burnout and of course, as you said, we're not therapists, that's not our, our territory, but I completely agree with you that I feel that there is a huge potential for coaching to support people. With their mental wellness before it gets to the need for therapy., if we were to actually if we were to actually be able to intervene and work with people to, to support their resilience, to support their, their wellbeing, then I feel very confident that there would be much less pressure. on the health services around mental health challenges, if people were helped and supported sooner. That's one of the challenges, at least, I don't know what it's like in Asia, but at least in, in the UK and in Europe, , quite often people are sort of left to struggle. Their lives are in work and then it only really gets addressed when they've become unwell. When actually coaching could support that process. So I really agree with you there. And yes, I mean, I'm always a stickler for ethics and protocol. So I completely agree with you that when we have a profession, which coaching is, that is self regulated We do have to be very careful that, that people are practicing with integrity. And of course, not everyone does do that. So I think that what, , what you're saying about good training, good qualifications, ongoing development being rigorous with our code of conduct is very important. One of the things that strikes me about what you were saying, Kyrk, is that In some ways, and I love this idea of coaching going beyond formal coaching sessions into it being part of conversation, which I really can see as a trend as well. So with that theme of coaching, just Spreading out into society more. What is your perspective also on the potential for coaching as a, as a tool for social contribution, social impact, outside of perhaps executive coaching? What are your thoughts there on the potential for social contribution? Yeah that I, there's one thing that I learned. This is was something that I learned through having a conversation with an, an executive, one of my clients. And we were talking about today's society and the workforce, we are getting more and more diverse, , in, in how we live and work together. And Because we have people who come from different generations, work values, and then work styles,, living together, interacting, communicating with each other. So my clients told me that, , she told me that, , coaching is the kind of conversation that is can be used as a multi generational language., I think we have heard about coaching as a universal language of change before, but this is something that I learned from my clients, that it's a multi generational language. Because if we listen to each other, we refrain from making assumptions., we acknowledge each other's talents and, and, , ability and we help each other learn and grow as a society. I think we, at the end of the day, we will have a better world to live. Yeah. Well, I think you and I are going to agree on everything today. I completely agree with you. And I love that idea of coaching as a universal language and a multi generational language. And I have to say. In that regard I'm doing increasingly a lot of work with younger people, young, young adults either people in university or just starting their first careers. And they are They are responding so well to coaching. To being coached, but also to developing coaching skills for their conversation. So, I completely agree with you. Coaching is a beautiful language that can just cut through. All sorts of boundaries. Like you were saying earlier, weren't you? About the cross cultural elements with your airline history, , in your career, how coaching can help with cross cultural communication. So it crosses all of those boundaries, doesn't it? Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, I think active listening, it's, it's the a key, , in, in bridging the communication gaps, no matter how different we are, if we listen, we acknowledge each other talents. And then I think at the end of the day, we will, we can capitalize on our differences. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm sure there are people listening to this, I hope they are anyway, who are at various stages in their relationship with coaching. Some people may have already done some of their training, a lot of training, some people might still be considering becoming a coach. What would you say to someone who either is thinking about becoming a coach or is still early in that pathway in terms of their development. What would you say to them in terms of engaging in this profession or in this way of working? Yeah from, , many people that I, I know, they, we enter into the world of coaching from many different angles. But I myself, as I, as I mentioned that I, I share with you that I came from a practitioner and before I become executive coach, I, I would say that , to save our time and spirit, start with the right. Coaching education, it will save people huge time, , and, and stress to start with the right core coach coaching competencies and I mean, I'm not patron promoting any specific association, but ICF core competency are very structured. Easy to digest, easy to follow, , and also easy to transfer to, to, to someone else who are, who are your students. First thing start with the right education, the right coaching education that comprises the ethical standards., so that we we start coaching with the right approach. And that's the first thing. And the second thing is even though we are holding our profession as a coach, but we also have to keep ourselves updated what is going on in the world. These days, for example, organizations are talking about ESG, AI strategy. Collaborative leadership ecosystem. So what do all of this mean to them? And, and how can we help them accelerate, use coaching as a way to accelerate their aspiration, their achievement. That is a second thing that I would recommend. And the third thing is that we have to be a very good role model in feedback. Receiving and feedback giving. The best way to continue to develop ourself we have to always, , ask for feedback from, from the clients. And sometimes, , the best feedback, it's, it's the least comfortable to hear, but this is how we grow as a coach. These are a couple of things that I recommend. Yeah. Well, that's marvellous. Thank you, Cara. And, , it's interesting that you reference there a code of ethics to be ethical, etc. And you also spoke just a few moments ago about one of the risks in our profession is that There are people out there saying they're a coach when they maybe don't have very much training. What other risks, if any, do you see to the future of coaching and what you think we should be, , taking care of to ensure the integrity of the profession and the growth of the profession? Yeah, that's a very good point, Tracy., I, what I've been observing is that when with the ICF credentials, , and, and credentials from any other associations also And also when people know that you are a coach, a credential coach, and especially after you have done a great job for them, right, so they, they tend to trust and believe in what you are saying,, it's, it means that you become a more influential person to, to the clients. So we have to be even more careful of , our, our coaching professions, and we have to also, , uphold onto that ethics of not telling them or advising them what, what to do. Coaching, it's the work that we do a lot with people thinking and feeling, and we have to keep telling ourselves that we are working with that thinking and feeling., asking questions and, and help them come up with new awareness and, and get the answers by themselves. Sometimes when we suggest them on anything, , even like we say sharing, this is such a sharing because they trust you. They trust us, they already, take away what we told them. So we have to be very, very careful with this because there are as, as I mentioned earlier, there are people who use the quote in front of their name and sometimes, , they, they influence other people to invest on something and this is not right. This is going to damage the whole coaching industry. And also I think this is the risk. Yeah. That we are going through. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, as I listened to you describe that, it just, I could feel that sense of social responsibility almost that coaches we have because we are working with people's inner world, aren't we? With their thoughts. Yes. Feelings. And that is something to take care with. To take a lot of care with. So that integrity is, is so important. Yeah. Thank you. Well, maybe then as we start to sort of pull our time together for now, Cara tell us a little bit about what's next for you in terms of your passion, your purpose, you've already done and achieved so much, where, where are you? focusing now? Yeah, I think I'm going to continue to do what I enjoy the most. I kind of balanced, accepting a leaders and executives that I, I get to coach, but I try to limit., to maximum 10 people in a year so that I can also do other things that I like. The things that I love the most is to help organizations integrate , coaching into many areas into other things that they, they would like to initiate. For example, the organization who are looking for creating a cultures of. psychological safety, for example, I, I love to help them integrate coaching into the process so that they, they, they can really leverage from coaching skill that they have learned. So where is coaching, embed in the process of psychological safety? I love to help people do that. And back into the pandemic crisis, for example I love to help them, , design how can they integrate coaching into the three stages of crisis when people have crisis shock. So what would be the main purposes, , of coaching their team members and when people already get to the routine crisis. So what could be the issues of coaching? I love to help them., partner with them and design the structures and not the script, but the structure of how to coach people for the better. And then during the crisis recovery,, how can leaders and manager help their teams to help the company,, make up the laws and everything. So this is the part that I enjoy the most. Yeah. Wow. I mean, what, as you're talking, Cora, I'm just really struck by the many examples that you're sharing around how coaching can just support organizations in all sorts of dynamics or circumstances that they find themselves in, such as crisis, post crisis, , integration, handling change, which, of course, We know from research done by ICF that coaching is an enormous enabler to effective. Yes. But you really seem to have brought that to life today for, for those listening around practical conversations that we can have in those organizations. So maybe just as a final thought just a general question, Cara, really, before we, before we close for today, is there anything else? that you would like to share in terms of either the future of this profession or anything else you would like to share to our listeners who might be interested in developing their practice as a coach. Well, I, I would encourage, our audience, our listener, , if you are already in the process of developing yourself to become a good coach continue to do it. I, I know it in my heart that Coaching create the compounding effect. I, I, I'm, I don't want to say that when we learn coaching today and everything is going to change tomorrow, coaching is the compounding effect. We just have to be patient, , and, and continue to use it in many ways. And The, the positive impact is so profound. And for example, like, , helping organization to drive through change, navigate through change and transformation. Coaching was an enabler in the past, yesterday. It's, it is today and it's going to be here, , it's going to be there in the future to help us an organization drive and thrive through all the challenges. Yeah. Well, you're very much speaking to my heart Cara, because I, I truly believe that coaching has not even scratched the surface yet, almost, on its potential for the difference that it can make, not, not just in organizations, but in people's lives and different contexts and situations, I, , I think the the potential is, is Yeah, it's limitless, really. So, Thank you so much for engaging with us that, on that today and thank you again for joining me. It's been such a pleasure talking with you and it's my pleasure. Well, who knows, maybe we'll have another conversation again soon. Yes, I would love to. Thank you, Tracy. Thank you, Cara. You have been listening to Coaching in Conversation by Tracy Sinclair, a podcast aimed at exploring how coaching is a vehicle for change. For human development in today's and tomorrow's world. You can learn more about coach training and development at tracysinclair. com and follow us on social media. If you enjoyed this podcast, please leave a rating and review and also share it with your networks to help us expand our reach. Thank you for listening and see you next time.