Hello, my name is Tracy Sinclair. Welcome to Coaching and Conversation. Coaching in Conversation is a chance to discuss and explore, not just how we can keep developing. And ensuring as coach practitioners, but also to consider how coaching is evolving and its future potential and place as a powerful vehicle for human development in today's and tomorrow's world. I'll be sharing some of my own thoughts on these topics, and we will also hear from some great guests from around the world who bring their unique experience and perspectives. Hello everyone. It's. Tracy Sinclair here with another episode of Coaching In Conversation. This time I am talking with Kristi Adams, who is a coach who specializes in working in the healthcare. Field Kristi trains coaches supports process design, many different roles that she plays within the healthcare profession and is so passionate about what she does based on some of her own life experience, some of which has been. Very challenging, but which has led her to find her passion in life. And I'll leave her to tell you a little bit more about that. Kristi has won awards for her work in this field, and this episode is called Using Your Passion to Make a Difference. Enjoy. Well, welcome Kristi. I've been looking forward to this conversation this afternoon, and I'm delighted to have you on my podcast. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Yes, I've been looking forward to it too, a lot. Well, we know that there's a particular aspect to your coaching that I know I would love to explore and I think will be very interesting for. Those listening or watching the podcast. But before we go into that, maybe a more general question of how you got into coaching perhaps in the first place. What was your entry point, if you like, Where to start? So I'll start by saying that coaching completely changed my life in ways that I never could have imagined. So I. Came to coaching or I found coaching or coaching found me. I'm not quite sure that how it happened really, to be honest, Tracy, but it was back in 2016 and I had had a period of quite significant ill health, so I'd had my two children quite close together. I had two young children at the time who were two and three, and my health was deteriorating and I didn't know what was going on, and they couldn't find anything, thankfully, that they could diagnose. And so what happens is if you have illness that's not diagnosable, it often gets. Diagnosed, but in a kind of non diagnosed way of being me, or chronic fatigue syndrome. So it's a bit like long covid as we know it now. So I had been in bed for a year in for the, pretty much the whole of 2013, like I said, with two small children, and I didn't know how I was going to do life, and then I found coaching and it completely changed my life. Wow. And when you say you found coaching, was that because you discovered it as a way of working or you, you were received, you received coaching. Would it be okay if I go back a little bit further to add some flavor and some context to how I found coaching? Yeah, please do so as you know, and I suspect we'll explore together. I've. I specialize in healthcare and I specialize particularly in healthcare leadership. And my journey into the NHS started when I was seven, so my dad got diagnosed with a pitu gland tumor, which you may well know and listeners may well know. People often live very well with. My dad had a series of other complications with it. He ended up being a double amputee. So he had both his legs amputated below the knee and my parents were divorced. So I was a young carer for my dad, but part-time on weekends, which was a bit crazy 'cause I was living this normal life on the weekend with my mom and my sister. And on the, during the week, sorry. And going to school and doing all those things that kids do. And then on the weekend I was looking after my dad, who was very unwell and. He was, had lots of sort of mental health challenges as well, and so I ended up spending a lot of time in hospitals and I learned to be inquisitive. I. I learned to ask questions. I learned to be curious. I learned to have a bit of a thirst and a hunger for understanding what was going on because I was a scared child and I didn't know what was happening to dad when he was unwell. So I guess I found my voice at the age of seven and I realized that not only was I perhaps unusually curious and inquisitive, but I. Found that the NHS was my home. So from the age of seven, I knew that healthcare was gonna be the place that I, I ended up belonging. So I think probably, if I look back now, maybe coaching or the concept of coaching found me back then, or like I said, I found it, I'm never quite sure. So I think it's always been in my veins, the curiosity and, a real desire to understand humanity and to play some part in people living the best life that they can. Mm mm Wow. Well, thank you for sharing that story, which is something I know that you've, you've shared with me at least before, but it's a lovely. Reminder and so striking, isn't it? How these qualities can be ignited in us through a need. You know, it's you, you needed to be curious because you, especially at that age, I guess, did not have the comprehension to process and. Deal with, you know, what was going on around you. And so your, your what evoked what was evoked from that was this innate curiosity, which of course serves you very well as a coach. Absolutely. Thank you. And then in terms of how I became a professional coach, so after that period of ill health, which I was really scared because my dad had passed away when I was quite young. And so I was thinking, well, maybe that's going to happen to me. Maybe my path is, you know, similar to his. And I knew that I needed to change my life. I had to. Come out of employment and I was a career woman, so that was pretty life changing in itself. I had two small children and life just had to change 'cause I couldn't live it as I was living it because I, I, I wasn't well enough. And I tried exercise, I tried other therapies, I tried all sorts of things, and then I think I just googled. In desperation. You know what else? And came across this term coaching that I'd never heard of before, if I'm really honest. Which seems so strange now because it's everything to me. And I became curious about coaching and I thought, well, this looks interesting. And I think what I liked about it was the fact that it wasn't someone telling me what to do. I was going to be. Encouraged to tap into my inner resources and to be able to explore my own options and, and find my own ways. And if I think back to when I was a kid, that's what I had to do. I had to tap into myself. And so I thought, well, if I could do it, then I can do it again now. And, and so I decided to. Read and learn everything I could about coaching. And once I'd done that, I thought, right, okay, not only do I belong in the world of healthcare, but I think I belong in the world of coaching. So that's when I trained to become a coach. Mm-hmm. And the two worlds came together in a way. Before we go into that, I'd love to just comment on something that you've just shared there about your inner resources, because. I guess what strikes me is when we are challenged, it can be a default position to look outside for answers and support and resources. And I'm not saying that's not helpful 'cause there's a lot we can gain, obviously. But what was interesting about what you shared is because you had this undiagnosed diagnosis, you know, this kind of mysterious, nondescript category that you are, you are put in, you weren't getting the answers. What strikes me is you weren't getting the answers from outside, from, you know, the powers that be, or those who know because they didn't know, and that led you to go inside. So your story for me is just like, it's the perfect model of what coaching is about in that, regardless of what's going on outside, whether it's useful. Or not, there are answers inside of us that, in your case, particularly both as a 7-year-old in the hospital with your dad, and then as a young mum trying to understand why she's been in bed for a year helped you to reshape your life, but two quite significant points. And you, you used coaching, whether you knew it or not, in a way at the time you used coaching or the principles of coaching to find your own answers. Yeah, it's absolutely what happened. And when I think back now to the days of lying in bed, you know, I remember it so well, Tracy, my baby. The kids were two and three at the time, and every bit of energy I had went on getting them dressed and ready for nursery and loving them with every fiber of my being. And then I'd go back to bed. And then when they came home from nursery, I would. Be mom again. And when I was in bed during the days, I, I, for anybody that's experienced any sort of chronic fatigue or fibromyalgia or these other conditions that are by non diagnosis, if you like, it's you, you lose your sense of yourself because there is no diagnosis and so you start to question your self. You start to. Think that you are going a bit mad and to think that this isn't real and to think that you are making it up and how comes everyone else can cope with life and I can't. And you know, I was training to do a half marathon when I. Became Ill and I have always been a very fit person. I'm a very ambitious person and I live in the fast lane and I lived in no lane. I lived in my bed and there was one particular day and there was a glass of water at the end of the bed and I thought, I am so thirsty, but I can't get out of bed to get that glass of water. And I, the, the sense of desperation. I can feel it now as I'm just, you know, as I'm describing it. And, and, and now that seems like an alien world, but that was my world for a very long time. But I always knew, I always knew that I could get myself through it. And I, I don't know what I mean by that. Other than that, I knew that I could, and that's when the coaching really came into. And taps into that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I just think there's, gosh, I mean, we could spend the rest of this podcast. I think just unpacking that piece alone, but maybe that, we'll look at that at other time.'cause I'd love to talk about the healthcare piece, but I mean, I don't want to minimize how challenging your situation was or how other situations are for people around the world. But to have that belief inside that you can and will somehow find the way is so powerful, isn't it? Because even though that's going to probably be really hard to do, sometimes it's not, it's not an easy pathway, is it? To sort of work your way out of that kind of challenge. But to know that you have it within you to be able to do it is just, is so overwhelmingly powerful. And I have my dad to thank for that because, you know, having been a young carer and spent so much time caring for him, mentally, physically, you know, spending so much time in and around hospitals and GP surgeries and, and, and missing out on all sorts of things as a child, you know, missing out on friends' parties and not being able to do all the things that my friends were doing because I was looking after my poorly dad. You. Thank you. Thank you, dad. Because I genuinely wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now if I hadn't have had those experiences. And I think all of us can place a frame, can't we? On, on how we view things and we have the gift of being able to reframe them. And for me, I didn't have a very easy relationship with my dad and when he died, things between us. Weren't easy and you know, I can never tell him. Can I Thank you, but, but thank you. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you for that. And I guess, you know, these things that we've discussed so far are what we as coaches are trying to. Support our clients to tap into and nurture. But of course it also applies to us, doesn't it? You know, we're human beings navigating our way through as well. Well, I'd love to hear a bit more about the healthcare piece because I know that it's so important to you. And I think it's very interesting for coaches or anyone listening to, to have a. A deep appreciation, I think, from yourself because this is an area that you've really specialized in on how coaching is really making a difference, how it's adding value, what some of the challenges are, you know, the good, the bad, and the ugly, if you like, of, of when we dedicate our coaching practice in a very particular way, which is obviously what you've done within that context. So tell us a little bit more about, about what that is for you. So for me, I specialize in healthcare and probably specialize even further in healthcare leadership. And it's interesting, isn't it? Because when I first qualified as a coach, I remember one of the trainers saying to me, so what will be your niche, Kristi? And I just thought, I mean, coaching isn't that a niche? And then I realized that. What they meant was, but you know, where will you take your coaching and, and how will you be, how will you stand out as a coach? There are lots of us aren't there and then, you know, coaches are, being part of the coaching community is one of the best things in my life. So when I started out coaching, I didn't. I didn't know instantly that I would take it into healthcare, but my coach at the time asked me some wonderful questions that enabled me to think, oh my gosh, it's a no brainer, isn't it? I take my world of, of, healthcare in that I've worked in it. I'd worked in it by then for about 15 years. I'd been a young carer. I'd had ill health and I had coaching. So it then suddenly, when my coach asked me that question seemed really obvious that I would take my coaching into the world of healthcare. So what can I tell you about the world of healthcare? I mean, gosh. So we're how many years post covid now? Chay? Five, four or five. Yeah. So we are having that this conversation now, and what I can tell you at this point in time is that it has been an unbelievably tough four or five years in the world of healthcare. And I'm not frontline, you know, I'm not one of those amazing people out there saving lives. I'm not. I work with the people that are and. I've heard so many times people say to me, I'm broken, Kristi. I'm broken, and these broken people are the people that are fixing us. And I mean, it breaks my heart. I'm not okay with it. And it's not just the people on the front line that are to use their words broken. It's the people behind the scenes too. So it's the people working in managerial roles. It's people working in delivery roles, you know, trying to get things to happen. It's people working locally, it's people working nationally within those organizations, and they're all just exhausted. So that's the world that I operate in in terms of my coaching. And I find myself having conversations with people daily where they tell me things that they've never told anybody else, probably because they've never stopped and given themselves the headspace to even recognize that that's what they're thinking or what they're feeling. So I work with clinicians, I work with. Managers, I work with leaders and yeah, I mean, it's an absolute privilege. I have to look after myself in all of that, I, I'm wondering whether that would be a question that you would ask Tracy, knowing you It's you know, at the end of the, every, every day I have to have my own wind down processes that I go through to make sure that I'm not taking their stuff with me.'cause it's not my stuff, it's their stuff. It's a really, really tough place for people right now in healthcare. And if I can do, you know, my bit in some way to make their lives better people working in healthcare, then that's what I'm here to do. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And thank you for doing it. I'm. I know that we could go down a path of looking at why that situation is the way it is, which would take us into economics and politics and all sorts of other things. And I don't know that that's necessarily what's useful for us here. But what I'm interested in, I suppose, is the role that coaching can play in support of that work and, and a little, hear a little bit more about your perspectives on that and what. You know, what could even be better? What could, what could even make a better difference? And the thing that struck me about what you were saying is this term of a perception from people themselves, that they're broken. And that strikes me then that the whole context of that coaching, in a way, and please correct me if I'm, if I'm wrong here, is the whole context of a lot of that coaching is coming from a place of lack. Is coming from a place of, a lack of whatever, a lack of nourishment, a lack of support, a lack of resources, a lack of time, a lack of energy, lack of sleep. And it's interesting, isn't it? Because coaching. In many ways is positioned as something that helps us to tap into potential. So is there's that forward, you know, that the goals and the aspirations and the dreams, and yet as I hear you describe this, it feels as though a lot of that work is, is quite a long way from, from that space. What, what are your reflections on that? So I think we're very wise not to get political about this and not to take ourselves down that path. At the same time, I think we have to understand that there's a lot of play, and one of the things that is at play in the world of healthcare is that it is always described as a system, the system of healthcare. Within that big system of healthcare, you have systems that operate within it. And the thing that I'm very, very clear to impress upon people is that the system or the systems they're made up of people, it's people that are making those systems work or not work. And so there is such a, a sense. I get quite often that the language that we use is so dehumanizing. We talk about systems, we talk about complex systems. In healthcare in particular, we talk about the workforce. Now we don't talk about people, and I would love to see a shift in perspective so that when we think about. System of healthcare, we think about the people that are working in it in order to help people live the best lives that they can live. So I think if nothing else, we just need to check ourselves on the use of our language, which is something that we know in the world of coaching, we are very cognizant of. What was your question specifically around healthcare? Well, it was striking me that. The work that perhaps you are doing that you were describing is more in the place of helping people's wellbeing than them meeting their aspirational goals. There, there there's a, there's a very, very distinct flavor almost to the kinds of work that you are, you are entering into. That's a really good reflection. Actually, Tracy and I, I think it's about moving away from standardization to personalization. So if you think about learning and development and training opportunities that are often there within organizations, there are often programs of training aren't there or there are mentoring. Programs, and I can understand that we have to appeal to the masses, and we also have to work with budgets, particularly in the world of healthcare. But those approaches are quite standardized. They don't look at the individuals within those training programs or those mentoring programs in the same way that we do in coaching. So the shift for me needs to be. From looking at people as a collective, as part of a system, to looking at people as individuals. So what will make you thrive? Because what will make you thrive won't necessarily make what mean be what makes you thrive because you are different people. So that is absolutely right that my focus is on. The health and wellbeing of the people that are working in healthcare so that they can be aspirational and meet their objectives and save lives or create policies or whatever it is that they're there to do. And the role of us coaches working in healthcare is to provide them with that time and space so that they can. Flourish because if they don't have that, then they can't go and save lives or create policies or, or whatever their, their role is. Mm-hmm. It's interesting because as you were talking about this idea of system or systems versus people, you know, I was just thinking of the whole term, NHS being a service. You think of just a service as opposed to the people. Within that service, so I can, I can kind of really get a sense of that. So I'm also picking up here that the goal is obviously to support these people's wellbeing because it is challenged, given the, the, you know, the environment that they're working in and have to perform in so that they can return to being aspirational and. Meet their goals and their dreams for their profession, for their lives, et cetera. What is your view then on, because I'm imagining, again, challenge me if this is, is if this is wrong, but I'm imagining that because of the kind of work that you are doing and the kind of topics or situations or feelings perhaps probably, that people are bringing, you are working closer to the edge of therapy than. Other coaches might do, and I think we all will probably recognize that it's not just healthcare where there is a challenge to wellbeing. That seems to be a bit of a global pandemic in itself. So I know this will resonate with others, but particularly for you in that environment, I'm imagining that that's something you may be coming up with on a fairly regular basis. What are your thoughts around. That navigation of coaching and therapy in that context. I just think that's such a brilliant question. So you and I have talked about this before, Tracy and I had this conversation with somebody yesterday, so it's very timely that you asked me that. So the most important thing we know in coaching is contracting. We know that, don't we? We know that we need to make sure. That we are very clear about what coaching is and isn't. And that's one of the first things I do with anybody when I talk to them about coaching is I check their understanding of what coaching is, and it's often conflated with coaching and mentoring, coaching and training, et cetera. So I'm very clear about what coaching is. I'm quite a purist coach, as you know. And. I also described the difference between poaching and therapy and counseling and other types of interventions. So the conversation I was having with somebody yesterday who was exploring whether to work with me, I. We'd done some coaching and she said, I've really noticed that you've got this really therapeutic way about you. And it was a, it was a brilliant reflection because yes, I have a therapeutic way about me or a therapeutic style, but I was very clear to explain to her that I am not a therapist, I am a coach and this is the difference, but in terms of how I show up as a person and, and how I. Communicate and the conversations that I'm having with people, it has a therapeutic element to it, but I have to be very clear that I am not a therapist. And sometimes it does feel like a fine line. I. But I have to hold my boundaries on it. And if ever I feel uncomfortable in a conversation and I think that that boundary is being crossed because I've contracted with the person that I'm talking to at the beginning, we can pause and just remind ourselves about what, how we contracted initially. So I've never found myself in a situation that I feel is inappropriate or unethical, but that's probably because I do recognize that the work I do. It, it, it, it can be within that sort of therapeutic space. And so I'm very, very, very careful about the contracting. Mm. Yeah. I mean, I, I completely agree with you and, and I know we've chatted about this previously and what you've just made me think of there is we see in the competencies this idea of context having an understanding of the client's context amongst other related things. And I was just thinking that, you know, you have an appreciation of that context and the therefore challenges to their wellbeing that give, that gives rise to a coach that perhaps goes into a, into that kind of context. Not knowing could struggle potentially with, with meeting and navigating that boundary because as you say, it's a fine line, isn't it? It's something that I call, I've got a particular interest in this myself. I call it the gray space, which is this space between coaching and therapy where, you know, it's not binary, is it? It's not black and white. There will be times when you absolutely know something is therapy or needs to be in a therapeutic setting, and there'll be times when you absolutely know it's coaching. But when it comes to what we are noticing in the world around wellbeing, there is a space. Where that boundary is, is blurred. So I'm just interested because I know that you work in that space and I know that you navigate it very well. I'm also aware that maybe there are coaches that are less equipped to navigate that well, and, and what, you know, what's, what's possible, what's important around that. And of course, contracting, as you've said, supervision. Probably very much important, very important. I've also personally got this idea of I, I wonder if there is a set of sub competencies for coaching and for coaches that could equip them even more to navigate that space. It's something I've been, you know, curious about for a while, so it's a fascinating area. I agree with you and I have been thinking myself about how there should be some or could be not, should be some, some specific coaching, training around working with people in that, in that space. And you know, for me that's within healthcare. I, you, you may well be about to ask me this, but if it's all right with you, I'll share it while it's come to my mind. Otherwise I'll forget it. One of the things that. I, I do lay awake genuinely, genuinely at night worrying about this is the fact that coaching is not understood as I would like it to be understood in terms of what it is and what it isn't, and that it's not regulated. And one of the wonderful things that the NHS offers is some free coaching for people. So they have a pool of coaches. If you want coaching within the N, the NHS, depending on where you are in the country, you can usually find somebody to provide you with that coaching. And I am the biggest advocate of coaching, as you know at, like I said, it changed my life. I see the magic of it on a daily basis, but I lay awake worrying because those people are not all qualified coaches. Or certainly not qualified to work in this space, this gray space that you're talking about. And what worries me, and if I'm really honest, upsets me to my core is that what happens is people then experience what they are told or believe is coaching. And it's not coaching as you and I know it. It's not that transformational coaching. And so I think we lose those people because they don't want to then explore the sort of coaching that that, that you and many of our listeners are offering, or they come to me and they've had a terrible experience of coaching. They're brave enough to want to try it again, but they're skeptical. So it is not to say that I don't think the NHS coaching is a wonderful offer. I think it is. I think everybody should take up free coaching if it's offered to them, but I think my advice to anybody that is looking at taking up that type of offer, whether it's in the NHS or anywhere else, is to, I. Really ask your coach, tell me about you. You know, tell me about your experience. Tell me about how you got into coaching. Tell me about your qualifications. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think there's everything right with that. And, hmm. I want everybody to ask me all those questions and anything else they want to, if that reassures them that they're going to get the best possible experience of coaching. So my worry is that coaching is being offered and I think in some cases it's doing more harm than good. Mm-hmm. Interesting. Interesting. So that maybe then takes us to. So the next piece I'd love to explore with you, Kristi, is, is what's possible in the future, you know, where do you, where do you see the opportunity for coaching in healthcare over the next period of time? And you know, as well as those opportunities, maybe what are some of the things that would need to be navigated to realize those opportunities in the last. Three or four weeks. There seems to be a shift in the conversations that I'm having with people that commission me working in the NHS conversations previous to that. Really seem to be focused on that standardized training. I dunno what's happened in the last three or four weeks, but I've had so many more conversations around we've got these particular individuals, or this particular person that we know has potential. How can you help us realize that potential? Or we've got this particular group of people, or these parti, this particular person who's struggling with this particular issue or these particular issues, how can you help us support that person? So I feel like that shift from standardization to personalization just recently, it feels like that's starting to happen. Certainly through the conversations I'm having. I think the potential is, you know, you can see my face, those of you that can't hear me, you can probably hear my elevated energy and smile because there's so much potential for coaching across all society. But, you know, I'm talking about healthcare. There is money in the system in inverted commerce for learning and development, and we, if we were creative about how we use that. There will be some people that will absolutely fly that people never thought would through that really personalized one-to-one coaching. You know, if I didn't have a mortgage to pay and I didn't have bills to pay Tracy, I would offer free coaching to anyone and everyone working in healthcare. You know, that, that would be my dream. That's not a reality yet, you know, who knows? One day. But I think everybody, everybody. And regardless of hierarchy, and this is something that really, again, genuinely, I'm so sad, but it keeps me awake at night. You know, we, there's a lot of executive coaching that happens in all industries and all sectors, but I do see that a lot in the world of healthcare. And it's not just the executives that are people, it's not just the executives that have health and wellbeing needs. It's not just the executives that need time and space to suss things out for themselves. All of us human beings need that. And I would love there to be a shift away from just focusing on people that earn more and have bigger titles to let's focus this stuff on people. Their needs. So if that person would really benefit from coaching and they're an administrator, what makes them any less worthy than somebody who's a senior director? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I guess there's something here about the reach isn't there of coaching and the. Equity, you know, how, how accessible is it to anyone and everyone. Which is interesting because that's one of the characteristics of coaching culture from the research that ICF has done, that one of the characteristics of a coaching culture within an organization or a system to we use that term is that coaching is accessible by, by the many and not the few. Yeah, and I, you know, NHS England commissioned me last year to train 2000 of their managers online to use coaching skills and. For me, that was a massive shift because what, what it showed me is that they understand that coaching is not just a profession and it's not just a coaching interaction that you know, or a professional coach that has a coaching conversation. There was a real recognition that coaching conversations, if they permeate, permeate through. A team or a, you know, an organization, they create these massive transformational shifts in relationships. And the feedback, I mean, it was a three and a half hour session, Tracy. I did it like I said, to 2000 people, and the feedback from just that three and a half hours was that people felt. You know, doubly confident to go away and have, and have a coaching style interaction. And I've had feedback since then where people have come back to me and said, you know, just those simple coaching skills that you taught us has completely transformed this relationship, you know, with my child or with my partner, or with my colleague. So none of this is rocket science. And I suppose, you know, in utopia. We would just go out there and share the magic of having coaching style interactions using some very simple coaching skills. And I have a model for that that I use that, you know it, it seems to work marvelous. Well then that takes me perhaps, oh, sadly, probably to my last question for today. The time just flies as always, but. We've talked a little bit about what the future of coaching could be like in healthcare. What, what about you? What lies, what's in store for you next? Oh, I got all goose bumpy Sharon, because if you'd have asked me that when I was ill in bed, what lay what was next for me was to go and get that glass of water. But I do remember lying in bed thinking, I've got this dream of being. You know, the coach that, that, that people go to within the world of healthcare. And that's not just about me, but you know, Tigo, which is my company and the team that, that, that I work with. So what's next for me when I'm having lots of conversations, which is how the world happens, isn't it, around some different opportunities. I think I, I would love to see coaching. As an, an offer that people get as opposed to just a, why don't you go on this mandatory course? Why don't you go on this online, you know, two hour course, et cetera. Like, I'd love it to see, I'd love to see coaching to be personalized and I'd love to be part of making that happen within healthcare. And I'm, you know, I'm sort of chipping away at that. And. I have a community. So for all you listeners out there who are working in health, social care, or the community and voluntary sector, or in any other health related organizations, we have a community. I think we're at 339 today, Sharon. So just an amazing bunch of people that all want to. Play their part in making the world of healthcare in particular a better place. So anybody that's interested can join that community. We meet. It's no cost. There's lots of tips and tools and techniques, and it's a real good opportunity for people that want to network but hate networking. So the way I've built what I do is through connections and conversations, and in the same way that I trust the coaching process, I trust, I trust that what will be will be. Yeah, what will be will be. Well, on that note, thank you so much, Kristi. It's been a joy as it always is to talk to you. Thank you for the work that you are doing. I mean, I think coaching makes an enormous contribution all over the world, but particularly in healthcare, which is something that's so important to sustain society. It's a great impact that you are having, I'm sure. So thank you so much. Thank you for having me. You have been listening to Coaching In Conversation by Tracy Sinclair, a podcast aimed at exploring how coaching is a vehicle for human development in today's and tomorrow's world. You can learn more about coach training and development@tracysinclair.com and follow us on social media. If you enjoyed this podcast, please leave a rating and review and also share it with your networks to help us expand our reach. Thank you for listening. I'll see you next time. You have been listening to Coaching in Conversation by Tracy Sinclair, a podcast aimed at exploring how coaching is a vehicle for human development in today's and tomorrow's world. You can learn more about coach training and development@tracysinclair.com and follow us on social media. If you enjoyed this podcast, please leave a rating and review and also share it with your networks to help us expand our reach. Thank you for listening. I'll see you next time.