Hello, my name is Tracy Sinclair. Welcome to Coaching and Conversation. Coaching in Conversation is a chance to discuss and explore, not just how we can keep developing. And ensuring as coach practitioners, but also to consider how coaching is evolving and its future potential and place as a powerful vehicle for human development in today's and tomorrow's world. I'll be sharing some of my own thoughts on these topics. And we will also hear from some great guests from around the world who bring their unique experience and perspectives. Hi everyone, it's Tracy Sinclair here with another episode of Coaching in Conversation. This is a very special episode actually because this is to commemorate and to acknowledge one of my clients, Wärtsilä, who have recently been awarded the Honorable mention in the ICF 2025 Impact award. In the category of distinguished organization, and this is such an exciting thing for Sela to achieve as they have invested a great deal of time and energy and effort and. Intentional input to nurturing and developing a coaching culture over a period of time. And so I have great pleasure in having a conversation with ER's Learning and Leadership lead, Elina Välimaa. And she and I have worked closely together over the last two or three years in service of supporting the organization to get to this point in time. So. I think anyone who is listening to this, who is perhaps an internal coach or works within an organization providing external coaching services, or also for organizations listening to this who are thinking about coaching culture and what it might do for them, then this conversation would be a really useful one to listen to in terms of. How vents have gone about this process, some of the key characteristics and cre key milestones and inputs that they have put in place. To get to the point where they are today. And of course, it's an ongoing journey. They're continuing with their pursuit to continue to nurture that culture and the impact that coaching has as a strategic resource towards that. So, with no further ado, please listen to this lovely conversation and I hope you enjoy it. Well, Elina, thank you so much for coming and talking with me today. I'm so excited about this conversation because I want to wish you, once again, so many congratulations on achieving the Honorable mention in this year's ICF. For the distinguished organization around your capacity to have built and continue to build coaching culture. So many congratulations for that. Thank you Tracy. And congratulations. Congratulations to you too. I mean, you have been an in incremental part in this, of, of us getting the award, so I think we wouldn't be there where we are today without you. Oh, well, I, it, I think you and I like working with each other, don't we? So it's an absolute pleasure. Absolute pleasure. And, and how, how does it feel to have achieved this and what's, what's the vibe, if you like, in the organization about it? Personally, I mean. It, it feels good, of course, but I mostly feel good for other people in a way. I, I feel really proud of, of the organization and what they have accomplished. So and, and also that it's an external recognition of, of the hard work. At the same time, I feel that there's so much more to do. So, so I guess that kind of never satisfied. So in a way it's a milestone, but on the other hand, it's kind of already history. So I'm thinking forward. You, you're already thinking of the next milestone. Yeah. Yeah. Well, in terms of milestones then, where, where did all of this begin? Elina. It began I think in 21, 22 20 21, 1 22, where we were developing a leadership culture and at Wärtsilä, and we also had a new strategy. And, and one key element there was the kind of leadership that will kind of take us to the target position. So there was also, in the strategy itself, it's already defined what kind of leadership we would like to have and what kind of culture we would like to have. And, and of course the leadership is, is then enabling the culture. From one angle. And there when we defined our lead leadership ambition or the kind of to be state. So then within our leadership model, the, you know, coaching is really kind of one of the key. Competencies. And so that's when we started to, to kind of really kind of develop the organizational coaching culture and coaching competence and from different angles and, and myself. I'm A, B, CC, coach at ICF. And so it was quite familiar with me with kind of the competencies, how they're defined and so forth. And also I had access to ICFs studies on, on how to build coaching culture. And basically we just took their kind of from their material, kind of what kind of levers you would need to have to, to have a strong coaching culture and started to build that. I mean, thank you. Is this, I, I, I've found as well that the resources that the ICF have done around their research into this are very, they're valuable sources of guidance and information, aren't they? Of course. As well as the different case studies from people that have won these awards in the past. I'm also thinking, you know, even though coaching is so widespread and well known now, there are still. Organizations that don't have the awareness of coaching. And obviously Wärtsilä is very fortunate in they that they have you who is a credentialed coach A PCC, as well as some of the other colleagues in Wärtsilä. What about, what would you say to those organizations perhaps that are listening to this? Who haven't done anything and are thinking, okay, well what, why, why should I do this? Why should we invest in this? What, what do you think is important about that? Hmm? Why should anyone invest in development, people development or leadership development? I think it's really increment. It is really kind of it's really crucial. For building a company culture and, and culture that's sustainable and in a way that there's a enough skill, skilled people leading others who also have skills in self leadership. So that kind of like build, builds the system that goes. You know feed itself in a way at, at the end of the day. So I think there is, it is never in vain to invest in people development. And of course the key thing is you kind of like, agree on, on what you're going to invest in and what, what is the, kind of the ambition. So the definition of, of what good looks like is really important. And then also understanding where you are today. And then you kind of build a roadmap based on that. So not kind of, you know, throwing money to one place or another. And just for, for the sake of kind of like somebody saying that, Hey, I need to do this, so I need to do that. But in a way, like really having a plan around it. So it's not for the individual's sake only, of course the individual is benefiting as well, but the, the organization and the system is benefiting. So we are kind of like, Hey, this is the direction we're gonna go and we want to put money into these kind of things. And, and, and that's what we are gonna measure as, as well. So it's, there's a plan, there's a strategy. I think that's really important. So regardless where you start from. Because if you have a plan, you have a direction, you can systematically then go to that direction. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that, that, what's really coming out for me from what you are saying there, Elina, is that it's not leadership or people development just at an individual level or at a team level or a department level. There's something systemic here. Around thinking about how can this development, how can coaching almost be used as a strategic skill, a strategic resource to inform leadership culturally a a across the organization. So it's very macro. Yeah. Not just micro focused. Yeah. And I think that is maybe the. Pitfall many times we are falling into, so we are co more looking at the micro, of course, the micro matters because the individual experiences, they matter and, and, and, and the kind of joy and the people get out of coaching, being a coach or a coachee that matters. And that's of course like the. That's the primary motivational factor then Yeah. For the individuals, but if you just focus on that, it will never be strategic north. Systemic. Yeah. In nature. So in the, I'm, I'm getting a sense then of, of it's a blend of both. You've got some tactical interventions as well as this more systemic holistic plan. So what would be some of the key building blocks almost that you at SWärtsilä decided to put in place from the beginning? How, how did you start all of this? Hmm. We started with building a internal coaching community. So building coaching competence within from within. So, and have kind of understanding that there are different modalities there as well. So you have those coach practitioners, you have leaders as, as coaches and, and, and of course individual contributors that are. Can also be coaching. So we understood that we have different, let's say, target audiences even. And we started to kind of offer started to build a coaching community for those that are interested in the professional development of themselves as, as coach practitioners and, and, and offered cohorts of, of, for where they could kind of get their a CC level trainings in, in place. And then also we offered a way of, of getting internal coaches so we have a, a way that anybody can apply for a coach and then you will be matched with a coach. Coach. And so we have that method in a way and that mechanism in place. So, and that has allowed many people to, to kind of go through their coaching certification path and then to be able to certify us as well as, as they have. Reach to the hundred hours of, of coaching by coaching their fellow their colleagues, or of course not someone close by, but more, you know, farther away from in the organizational setup. And of course, there's always a coaching contracted place and confidentiality and, and all the kind of ethics I-C-I-C-F code of ethics is being enforced there. So that has been like a one mechanism. That has been kind of building up the momentum because these people are of course, from different parts of the organization, and they have been then kind of bringing the kind of message to their own organization and, and being really keen on telling, telling about coaching. Then of course, leaders as coaches we have a large population of 2,650 globally line managers, so of course. Leaders are more than line managers, but if we just think about line managers, we have a big bulk of them as well. And, and then kind of addressing them, providing them with coaching trainings. And abilities through different programs and and so forth. So that has been one key element. And of course, it's kind of like starting from, from the top of the hierarchy as as well. So our senior leaders. Being coached themselves and so forth and kind of getting, understanding what coaching is. So I think it's important that people get the experience. So you can learn by being coached. You can learn by being a coach. You can learn in a training. So there are so many different ways that you can learn coaching. So we have, done, those kind of things. And, and really, of course, I would say that you need to have some level of understanding in the senior leadership of the organization, that they can at least, you know, they understand the benefit of it, at least to some extent. Yeah. So I think that's really, really important. The, the ICF in their work with coaching cultures has identified a number of characteristics. Of an organization that sort of indicates coaching culture and you've just shared two of them there, which is access tool all, which is a really important one, is that, you know, and it always struck me about the way you've set the system up, that anyone can ask for coaching. Anyone can apply to get these skills as long as they get a sign off, you know, from their line manager. So, so open access is. Is a characteristic here, isn't it? And, and the other one that you've mentioned is the senior sponsorship that coaching, it has to, in order for it to become systemic and cultural, you've got to have senior awareness and commitment. Genuine, visible, active commitment. And that's, again, something that's always struck me is very much there with, with Wärtsilä. Yeah, so I think it's a kind of a good combination of, of top down and bottom up. So there's kind of like, and working with different modalities and different, you know, parts of the organization. So it has been a quite good way of approaching it. However, I would say that it's not something that you do in, in, kind of, in a couple of months, so it, it requires stamina and endurance in a way that you just keep going because none of these kind of, if you're building a culture, it takes time and, and you need to be consistent with it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, as you've said, you started this process in 21, 22. We are now coming onto the cusp of 26. Exactly. And it's not done, is it? You know, we can talk in a moment about next steps, but this is a long-term investment in the organizational leadership and culture for, for sustainable success, isn't it? This is not a project. No, no, no, no. It's a way of being, I would say, almost. Mm. So what, what might be some of the, apart from the, the, the impact towards, of course, but what might be some of the highlights for you in terms of, I don't know, the impact that you feel it's had or feedback that you've had. What would be some of those high points? I think it's just like hearing people talk about these kind of things and kind of like in, in a, some Viva engaged groups or, you know, there are some people who are kind of like commenting on, oh, I went to this training, I learned this, and hey, I, or kind of like the way people are talking about this things nowadays. So I think that is and, and it's not, they don't know, you know. They are not talking to me. They're just talking with each other. And I, I might overhear something and I'm, I'm just like so glad to hear that. Hey, the kind of like, the seeds have really kind of grown to be beautiful plants and, and so people are just like, kind of like. They are just they're enthusiastic. They feel that they're kind of like they're in a good place. They're kind of just unprompted saying things like, oh, we talked about that, you know, that leader and then what kind of a leader I would like to be, and, and. He was so good in coaching and these kind of things you just hear anecdotally and I think that is kind of a sign of the culture. Yeah. Maturing. And I think that is just when you're kind of like, you're just like, I'm so happy to hear that and I'm just happy to be like, you know, in the sidelines and, and yeah. Yeah. So there's almost like that positive grape vine that the grape vine is. Is saying positive things about this. And one, one of the, in, in all of the work that we, we did, Elina, to pull the the submission together. One of the things that really stood out to me was your engagement results, your engagement scores. And the reason I say that is because partly because we know from other research that coaching is a very powerful way of. Supporting employee engagement. It's, there's a, there's a good correlation, if you like, between higher engagement scores and a coaching culture. However, I'm also aware that at this point in time, engagement scores globally are very low. Not, not in, I mean, I mean in the world. Many organizations are experiencing big challenges with their engagement scores. And so that's always been something around Wärtsilä that I have really noticed at, at that level of us pulling things together in the submission, but also on a day-to-day basis when I connect with those people on the trainings. It's just so apparent how connected and engaged Ians are. It really does feel like a community and people's presence in the sessions is great. Their attendance is great. Obviously sometimes people have to go to an urgent meeting or something, but that feels like a very, very strong characteristic that you have within the organization. That's, you know, very powerful. Yeah of course we are very happy about it. And, and this year, even like when we had had pulse surveys, the, the trend is even more is, is still increasing. So and, and very high also participant participation levels as well. So many people kind of are also participating in the survey, so that has not decreased on the contrary. And I think it's also like it's many things. So in a way that we have been systematically developing the, you know, the people side of things and really kind of highlighting it and then we are just doing kind of it. Continuous, may I say, grinding in a way. So it's like, it's not the kind of n ne next shiny object, but it's kind of like the basic small things in everyday life and then trying to do those better. So I think we are trying to kind of really follow up on things and, and. If we have areas where we are kind of scoring lower in the engagement service, we have actual, you know, really proper action plans on those. And so I guess all of that is something that people are noticing and understanding. And it's not like something that, you know, one day it's like this and the next day totally opposite. So it's a kind of a you have to have that dedication every day. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're back to this long term. Intention, aren't we? Not, not just something that's for this, this month or this year. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess we've talked a bit here about all of the the great things and the things that you've done and the outcomes. If I were to flip that over for a moment and say, with where you are now with all of this, is there anything that you would have done differently? Or that you, you would've done when you didn't or you wouldn't have done, you know, something that you think, Hmm, if I had this over again, I would do something differently. Hmm. Not really. So I think that that the main steps we took, they were the right ones of course. Like what was the speed? Could it, could it have been faster? Maybe, maybe not. So I think we have been really, we have been focusing on the right things and. And of course it's like you can always do more. You can always kind of reach out to more people. You can kind of, but it, there's a cost to that as well. So I think there's also like. In a sense, it's good to kind of like have a steady, steady pace with things and, and, and not to kind of pre have too much pressure. And, and because people also, they need to kind of understand these kind of things for themselves. It's, it's one thing for me to say, Hey, coaching is really cool and you should do it more often. But the other thing that if you kind of figure out that yourself. And you kind of get the insight. So then the, this change is really kind of sustainable. So I think we have given the kind of time to, for people to reflect and kind of like then come up, you know, with them, you know, kind of, okay, this is a good thing. So we have not pushed, anything onto people. So I think it has been a good choice, but of course sometimes you get more leverage if you kind of do it like in a more like with force. But that has not been our way. I think it has been more poor. Yeah. Yeah. There's a couple of things there that you are saying is one is or that I'm hearing from what you're saying rather is, is this organic? Allowing it to, to develop organically rather than some kind of a mandate and forcefully driven initiative. But, and also you said about, well, could it have been done more quickly? And yet perhaps it's the pace and the, and the more organics flow pace that is better. Because I, I'm thinking of things like. I don't know if growing fruit and vegetables, when we try to force the growth of things, they don't always grow so well, do they? And sometimes things need to be done at their, at their pace. And that, that strikes me as what you are doing at Wärtsilä, which is hard perhaps in today's world where everything has to be so fast and so, you know, implemented as of yesterday. Yeah. Taking a more measured approach to this. Yeah. And kind of meeting people where they are. So, 'cause you know, there's always a kind of a journey that everyone has to take and, and kind of like, probably coaching is not something that you start off initially, but it's. For instance, as a leader, so of course, depending on your personal stylist as well, but it's something that you then might kind of realize that, okay, maybe my directive style is is, or it's not the style for every occasion. And, and then you start to kind of explore. So kind of like. I think there are those kind of shifts and, and we can always say that, Hey, you know, have you thought of doing some something another way? But if you're not there yet you will not kind of, you know, take that advice. So, so I think it's, it's always best when people are kind of getting the aha moments themselves. Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and you said a few minutes ago about there's always more, there's always more that could be done. So from where we stand now, what, what is the next phase of all of this for you and Wärtsilä? I, I'm really kind of, I really kind of believe that we need to move towards team coaching more so from individual coaching and, and of course that will not disappear, but the impact of it, it's, is limited. And, and then I think the future is with team coaching and it's with systemic coaching as well. And I'm quite excited about the systemic approach myself nowadays. And really kind of shifting from. High performance teams to high value creating teams, so teams that are creating value for their stakeholders. So I think that is really the way forward. And, and the collaboration aspect is key there. And coaching is a great tool for collaboration as as well. So I think there's a lot to under unco uncover there. And, and I don't know what it is exactly, but I think we need to improve and increase the level of team coaching capability as an organizational competence, that's for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I, I love this distinction that you are making between performance and added value. You could, could you say a little bit more about that?'cause I'm mindful that some, some people might be listening to this thinking well. Increased performance is adding value, isn't it? But there's something else isn't there? Yeah. So what, what? Tell me a little bit more about that. Well, I think if you think about. Okay. High performance is not going away. And it's, it's, I think for me, high performance teams is kind of like the team itself, like how the team is functioning and the team members between themselves in a way. Like, and if they have like a core purpose, that's easy. And everybody's kind of contributing to that purpose with their competencies. So I think that then you are kind of like in a one unit. One team optimizing their performance. But then thinking about nowadays, most of the things happen between, between teams and, and you have different members in the team that have different stakeholders and, and then they are connecting to other teams and, and, and also in value streams. The, the customer value is created. Within different parts of the processes and different teams. So I think the collaboration aspect there, so the true value comes out of that. So not only. By optimizing the one unit, the one team. So I think that's the kind of the angle there and, and many times it's like, okay, our team is working so well together and, and, but it's the others who are not, you know? But what's your role in that? So so I think it's really kind of crucial that we kind of see the bigger picture of the system and how we can really work and add value to the system. Yeah. Gosh, I love that it's that there's a parallel, isn't there? From one-to-one coaching to team coaching and then team performance to multi-team performance and in, you know, valuable interaction. So it's that systemic ripple again. Yes. Wow. How exciting. How exciting. So, I'm, I'm mindful that we're perhaps coming to the, to the close of our time, maybe today, but what else have we not shared or discussed that you'd like to to speak about for anyone who's wanting to listen about coaching cultures? Maybe just like the angle of, of how anyone can coach themselves. And, and, and kind of like if that would be the aim. So think about what kind of an organization we would have if everybody would be able to coach themselves and really kind of be that self-aware. So that would be quite a cool place to be. And maybe with AI now you know, AI assistant on your side, so. You can really kind of coach yourself in a kind of next level. So I think there's a lot to uncover there as well. And kind of like starting from the one unit, being the one person, and then of course team being one unit as well. But it all starts from, from the one person. And you can do a lot there. Any, every one of us can. Gosh, my mind is really, now with that, I'm thinking of, you know, we have this idea of learning a learning organization, which I know s has identified, you know, with and connected with as a principal in the past. But I was thinking of the conscious organization, you know, where, where everyone is, is so awake to themselves and their interaction on others. What that does, you know, for that organizational consciousness, shall we say? It might sound a little bit, a bit psycho-spiritual there, but you know, there's, there is something there about where does that take the system of the organization, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. And, and there's many things, you know, in life when you kind of, like, when it comes to human suffering, even like, it's like, it's also like. It all starts from yourself, you know, how you see things. Of course, it's easier said than done sometimes, but still, like there's a lot that you can do first by kind of reflecting on yourself and kind of thinking about, you know, if the collaboration is not working with someone, you know, what's my part in it, and then so forth. So if we could do more of that, I think it'll also enhance the other parts as well. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, that's, that's very much evoked my thoughts, such food for thought around how we, how we achieve that. So that's wonderful. Thank you so much, Elina, as always. It's such a pleasure to talk about this with you and congratulations once again. It's delightful to work with an organization like Wärtsilä, and I wish you all the very, very best as it goes forwards into its next phase. Thank you, Tracy. You have been listening to Coaching in Conversation by Tracy Sinclair, a podcast aimed at exploring how coaching is a vehicle for human development in today's and tomorrow's world. You can learn more about coach training and development@tracysinclair.com and follow us on social media. If you enjoyed this podcast, please leave a rating and review and also share it with your networks to help us expand our reach. Thank you for listening and see you next time.